[terminator x]

That IC is embarrassingly small!

TX.

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[ayousef]

Hey Shaun,

Care to tell us how much boost the car is running on the Stage 1 map or is that classified information?

[Shaunee]

Hey Shaun,

Care to tell us how much boost the car is running on the Stage 1 map or is that classified information?

 

I haven't got the final boost log on me at the moment for the previous Stage 1 map, but it was under 1.5bar through the mid range and about 1.2ish bar at peak power. 

[Shaunee]

Last teaser.....


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[Shaunee]

Engine Stage 2 Development

Put simply this is going to be about testing an upgraded intercooler and also a map adjustment to suit.

 

Upgraded Intercooler

Whilst I didn’t labour this point as part of the Stage 1 write up, it was apparent that increasing charge temps on the dyno were a bit of an issue.  

 

On the stock map the intercooler was “ok” but once we pushed the boost levels up, charge temps were increasing.  This was even more evident when back to back runs were completed, which when you’re mapping can be fairly unavoidable.

 

A dyno cell is a very harsh environment…. Even the ones that have very good airflow. Whilst I’m adamant that you’ll see better airflow on the road, the results measured on a dyno are fairly indicative as to what happens to charge temps on repeated road pulls, or even single pulls when ambient temps are high.  This issue is further amplified when you start to increase power.

 

Whilst there are a number of intercoolers available for the RS3 8V I decided to plumb for the one from Forge.  Most of us know of Forge and their products always appear to get decent reviews and their prices are reasonable in my opinion.

 

To better gauge before and after results directly without any changes to the setup, it was decided to remove the front bumper and replace as much as possible (in readiness for the Forge intercooler), but whilst still retaining the stock cooler.  Then run on the dyno and swap out the intercooler in situ and run again.

 

First off the bumper was removed to show the stock intercooler setup:

 

 

The large alloy frame above the stock intercooler is the standard crash bar.  The stock intercooler is below and to the left and right of this are the oil, and I’m pretty sure a transmission cooler.  Plenty of coolers on these cars!

 

Next up was to remove the OEM crash bar and replace it with the new revised Forge version.  For clarity this is actually an OEM crash bar that’s been modified.  Modified?  Well it needs to be to enable the larger Forge intercooler to be fitted.  You’ll see this further on.

 

 

The space between the stock intercooler and the new crash bar gives you an immediate indication how much taller the new Forge intercooler will be.

 

Some other intercoolers available are getting on for double height.  Whether or not this actually makes any discernible difference to cooling ability I don’t know.  Personally I think it’s predominantly about the quality of the core (which you can’t see).  Surface size isn’t everything in my opinion.

 

At the end of the day manufacturers quote all kinds of figures about dimensions, airflow, pressure drop.  All I want to know is “Does this intercooler work better and how much better?”.

 

So with the stock intercooler in place the car was strapped down on the dyno for some stock intercooler baseline runs:

 

 

Once these were completed we fitted the new Forge unit:

 

 

You can see how it nicely fills that void, up against the modified crash bar.  Looks great as well all in black.

 

The new Forge intercooler is bigger than the stock item and here is a further image to show this in comparison:

 

 

Car was then run on the dyno again…..

So let’s look at the differences in charge temps between stock and the Forge intercooler.

[Shaunee]

Stock Intercooler

 

Run Number: 1st cool run (i.e. no significant heat soak - the best it can be I suspect for the ambients once the engine was up to temp)

Ambient Temp: 16.8degs

Charge Temp at Start of Run: 28degs

Charge Temp at End of Run: 44degs

 

Forge Intercooler

 

Run Number: 3rd back to back run on the Forge unit

Ambient Temp: 17.5degs

Charge Temp at Start of Run: 27degs

Charge Temp at End of Run: 26degs

 

Pictures (with a few important stats) can speak a thousands words!

 

The Forge intercooler is so much more efficient over and above the stock item.  Not only does it sustain the drop through 3-5k rpm, but it also maintains much lower temps at the top end of the run by a tangible amount (18degs lower).  Couple this with the fact that the above Forge charge temp plot was taken from the THIRD back to back run, and the Stock charge temp plot was the first run on the stock cooler, it really does provide context to how much better the Forge item is.

 

If you look at the data further you can see that whilst the Forge drops the charge temp through the mid range, this was only 3.5degs over ambient!  That’s bloody good by anyones standards.

 

It would appear that this Forge intercooler works well.  Very well.

 

Power Increases?

Sorry to disappoint….. There were none (both runs compared above achieved 430bhp).  Being honest I wasn’t expecting any increases just by putting the new intercooler on.  

 

In my opinion unless your OEM cooler is so inefficient, just putting a new intercooler on won’t magically make more power over and above what you had before “just because”.  What it will do is ensure that what you should have, you have more chance of maintaining on repeated high load runs (on a dyno, but more importantly on the road) and / or due to increasing outside ambient temps.  It can also give you ability to run more boost / ignition, where otherwise you may have been limited due to high charge temps.

 

You may see “instant” increases in power if the dyno you have used does not have really good airflow in my opinion, or you have an amount of heatsoak (which is what the Forge tests on their website allude to).  A dyno is a harsh environment and I do feel at times this harsh environment (with inadequate cooling / airflow) can show some increases with a new cooler as being smoke and mirrors, without any other changes being made. Sure, I have known other types of cars to benefit instantly from a change in cooler, but that has been due to how severely ineffective the stock item was.

 

A more efficient intercooler will enable you to maintain power for longer, but you can’t just take your previous power figure and just assume you can add power on to that just because of an upgraded intercooler.  

Make no mistake this new Forge intercooler is much more efficient over and above the stock intercooler……. By a country mile.

[Shaunee]

Fitment

Every other intercooler upgrade I’ve had done you’ve had to cut this, shave that and alter this.

 

Thankfully the Forge unit is straightforward to fit with no cutting and shutting.

 

It was definitely straightforward for me because I stood there and watched someone else do it, but I suspect you get what I mean.

 

One of the things that needs to be done is all of the plastic and cowling / foam needs to be removed from the back of the front bumper.  There are full instructions to tell you how, and this either pulls off and or unscrews.  Easy!

 

 

The only consideration is the number plate……

 

Whilst it’s not a major deal, if you wish to retain the OEM plate surround then that will have to be fixed to the grill from the rear of the grill by other means.  Or you just fix the plate directly to the grill, but then you’ll have to screw it in rather than stick it.

 

One other option is to do this…….

 

 

I think this looks so aggressive….. I stuck with this option.

 

Something else fitted was a set of lower boost silicon hoses from Forge.  I have the upper hose set as well, but this will be fitted at a later date.

 

 

[Shaunee]

Revised ECU Remap

This was one other area (apart from helping to sustain any power achieved) I was hoping that the new intercooler would pay dividends…..

 

One of the key elements that we couldn’t increase any more at Stage 1 was ignition (without the ECU retarding).  Whether or not this was in part down to charge temps, we’d soon find out.

 

Litchfields wanted to try quite a few different things with this remap, so it was decided to leave the car with them.

 

This is where they ended up:

 

 

Summary of Spec

MY16 RS3

Litchfield Stage 2 ECU calibration

Forge Intercooler

Miltek Secondary Decat Pipes

Fuel - VPower Nitro (99 oct)

 

Stage 2 TEST 1 figure achieved was 453.4bhp & 444.2lbft @ flywheel

Comparing this against Stage 1 TEST 3 figure we saw the following:

+19.8 bhp + 6.9lbft (peak) over Stage 1 TEST 3

+4.5% bhp +1.5% lbft (peak) over Stage 1 TEST 3

 

Overall Stage 2 TEST 1 comparison against stock

+65.4 bhp +94.2 lbft (peak)

+16.8% bhp +26.9% lbft (peak)

 

Stage 2 TEST 1 - Comments

It should never be about the peak figures, but it’s always nice to increase the top end again by around +20bhp!

 

The car actually made 457bhp on a few runs, but consistently made 453bhp.  Just thought I’d mention that for bragging rights! lol

 

Whilst the peak boost levels were only adjusted slightly (running 1.5bar flat through the mid-range, tailing off to around 1.2bar at peak power), the results attained were very positive with work put into the ignition map and overall boost control benefiting from the new Forge intercooler now in place.

 

Iain (Litchfield) did say to me that he was very impressed with how the intercooler worked on the dyno.  This car had a lot of runs…. Many of which were back to back, yet the intercooler provided stability to charge temps not seen before.  You can see on the above run even at this level after a number of back to back runs, the charge temps are well in check.  As a comparison during Stage 1 after 3-4 back to back runs the charge temps were over 60degs (virtually the same ambient temps as during Stage 2 as well!).  That’s how well this Forge cooler is working.

 

One other key element that has now been delivered under Stage 2 is how much quicker the torque builds and lasts compared to Stage 1.

 

We’ll have to have a look at an overlay for that to become clearer:

 

 

Whilst this graph is quite “busy” it shows Stage 2 vs Stage 1 vs Stock, if you look at the lowdown torque you’ll see that this is much better with Stage 2.  Stage 2 gains around 200rpm earlier torque and around 200rpm extension to torque from over 5k.  This ultimately makes the torque curve wider.

 

Lowdown you’re talking +40lbft between 1600 - 2500rpm.

 

Clearly there are BHP increases between Stage 1 & 2, but this is predominantly from 4k+, with the more significant gains from 5k+.

 

Because boost hasn’t really been increased through the mid-range, peak torque hasn’t really altered much from Stage 1, but it was felt that 1.5bar was ample through the mid range and the engine was happy with this.

 

As the torque is ramping up much quicker now early on, it’s quite difficult to control boost as it hits initial peak boost.  That is why you see a very slight dip in the initial part of the torque curve, as this is to prevent any overboost. With a bit more time this could be further ironed out, but it’s a minor point in reality.  I’m being overly anal.  

 

Overall the curves are very smooth.

 

Just as a giggle I decided to overlay the dyno plot from my Litchfield Stage 2 A45 vs where the RS3 is currently:

 

 

The blue lines are the A45.  The red lines are the RS3.

 

This is a good example of peak figures not telling the whole story, as between the two cars the peak figures are nigh on identical….. But see how much better the RS3 power/torque is.  So much smoother curves and like +100lbft of torque more lowdown.  That’s pretty immense and my A45 wasn’t a slow car!

 

Stage 2 TEST 1 - Road

The car feels better now at the top end as it certainly pulls harder, more than the dyno figure differences appear to suggest in my opinion.

 

The torque comes in hard and fast down low…. It feels quite brutal.  I never felt I was lacking for torque lowdown with Stage 1, but this just feels like it’s turned it up to No.11 now in comparison.

 

Regardless of these changes the car is smooth, responsive and very driveable….. Feels really nice on the road.

 

Whilst the Forge intercooler has helped increase power safely I also suspect that the added benefit of better managing charge temps on the road is also having an impact to how the car feels.  Every time you floor it, it feels ballistic….... On each repeated full load run.

 

For me that’s Stage 2 done and dusted.

 

I intend to get back down the quarter mile again this coming weekend, to see if Stage 2 improves my times.  My concern more than ever now is launch grip.  We’ll see how that goes.

 

I’m not assuming I will better my last time….. The dragstrip is never that straight forward.  It will be interesting and fun to try though!

 

In principle the context of Stage 3 has been agreed.  If it pans out as expected, this will be exciting using a different approach to the tried and tested.

Stage 3 will begin during November all being well…. So expect more news on this very soon!

[D19NL B]

Great write up for stage 2 Shaunee, I'm waiting for my forge cooler to come and then I am custom mapping the car so to see those kind of figures is very impressive! Something that I said I wanted to achieve and looks as though I should hit it.

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[Fivepotfan]

Another impressive write up Shaun, good to see you at the RS Fest yesterday.

 

Hope the weather holds for the drag-strip testing next week.

[davemul]

Absolutely bloody sterling work. Really enjoying your updates, so thank you.

[RS3Pilot]

great write up and explanation of what's involved and can be expected of a stage 2. I agree with what you say, not tremendous gains compared to stage1 but based on better intake temps you could expect to see this performance in higher ambient temps and in successive back to back runs. I've been waiting to see how the torque was held after 5000 rpm and noticed it fell away again like stage 1, the baseline has flat torque to around 6k. Any ideas whats causing this?, can't be intake temps which just leaves fuel, boost or ignition?

[terminator x]

Surely you don't need torque after 5k rpm as power is taking over?

TX.

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[MadMick]

Great write up!
Do you have any numbers about the ignition timing?

[Shaunee]

great write up and explanation of what's involved and can be expected of a stage 2. I agree with what you say, not tremendous gains compared to stage1 but based on better intake temps you could expect to see this performance in higher ambient temps and in successive back to back runs. I've been waiting to see how the torque was held after 5000 rpm and noticed it fell away again like stage 1, the baseline has flat torque to around 6k. Any ideas whats causing this?, can't be intake temps which just leaves fuel, boost or ignition?

 

A flatter torque curve per stock is purely the outcome of much less torque in the mid range, so you don't have such a visible drop.  BHP is derived from torque and revs, so to attain a flatter (but higher) torque range would require quite a bit more BHP at the top end to the rev limit.  That's not something that will be achieved with the stock turbo..... but it's swings and roundabouts.  Holding on to torque higher up, will normally mean you'll lose it lowdown.  It's a case of the torque band being moved rather than extending. 

 

What has been achieved now with Stage 2 is perhaps as good as it's going to get with the stock blower.  It has a substantial torque band now.

 

For a road car this is imperative to me.

 

I suspect you can map the car differently by reducing boost initially and through the mid range, and then cranking it up towards the top end, through to the redline (if it will take it).  This could see the torque come in flatter (but lower) and help to maintain higher up the rev range..... it may also pick up some extra power at the topend, as you're not pushing the turbo as much earlier on.

 

That might be fine for a track car or quarter mile map, but not what I want for a road car.

 

As has also been stated, the higher up the rev range you are, the more you're relying upon revs and bhp.  It does not feel like it "drops off" when you rev the car out.  It pulls hard all the way now to the limiter.

[Shaunee]

Great write up!
Do you have any numbers about the ignition timing?

 

For obvious reasons which I hope you'll understand, I'll refrain from putting up the ignition log, but it's running substantially more than stock which peaked at around 11degs. This is why this map does not need to run mega boost at the top end, to achieve the figures it does.  This is good for response, sharpness and managing EGT's.

[booker]

Great write up - again - Shaunee and the front end looks particularly mean, where is the number plate going to fit?

[Shaunee]

Great write up - again - Shaunee and the front end looks particularly mean, where is the number plate going to fit?

 

I've been informed that sticking it to the side (on the bumper) is not 100% passable under the eyes of the law (I know someone who recently got stung for £100 having one of these on their RS3).  I'm tempted (whilst not ideal) to stick on a plate on the leading edge, dead centre of the bonnet.  If that looks overly crap (lol), I'll probably move back to a centre grill position..... as a last resort.

[Fivepotfan]

I've been informed that sticking it to the side (on the bumper) is not 100% passable under the eyes of the law (I know someone who recently got stung for £100 having one of these on their RS3).  I'm tempted (whilst not ideal) to stick on a plate on the leading edge, dead centre of the bonnet.  If that looks overly crap (lol), I'll probably move back to a centre grill position..... as a last resort.

 

I removed mine and fitted it on the side (adhesive type plate) with the numbers as level as possible. I was able to get away with it blending in a bit more on my car (its Glacier White) but the problem is that the bumper curves away round to the front wing. This makes the last couple of letters difficult to read from the front if you have the regular 7 digit reg number (not so bad for shorter private reg numbers)

 

Despite Steve getting a FPN for his side mounted plate, I took the risk of the 100 quid fine and kept it on for a few weeks.....until I had a problem with the number plate recognition cameras that you get in some car parks. The camera was positioned towards the right hand side which made it difficult to read my plate to open the gate! 

I went back to the central front plate after that.

Edited by Fivepotfan, 16 October 2016 - 09:58 PM.

[Rs3443]

ONCE AGAIN EPIC WRITE UP MATE