[Shaunee]

Totally agree so what was you running

I’ve already said Ben..... I’ve also already said what it wasn’t running in comparison to other packages available.

You can plug me into a polygraph if you want.

[Shaunee]

More fuelling captain!!!

"We’re assuming the current fuel system will cope enough to max out the 76 (we’ll find out soon enough) but I’m currently looking at secondary injection and LPFP upgrade now as I’ll certainly need this to exploit the 3582 for when that goes on, let alone the 3584. A couple of options exist."

 

So I alluded to recently that I need to look at fuelling options.

 

I'm starting to look into this more now as I need to do something pronto.  Like most things in the tuning world...... options available, all proven, no worries.  Then you come to look further into it and it perhaps doesn't appear to be that straightforward.  

 

I am led to believe that 8V fuel system is better than the previous Gen set-ups.  From what I understand the combination of my stock injectors, VIS HPFP and stock LPFP will max out at circa 700bhp.  This is nowhere near enough capacity for where I would like the car to end up.

 

The current setup will just not allow enough controlled fuel flow for anymore (again, so I'm led to believe).  

 

LPFP

I need to get this confirmed (by checking the pump assembly) but my understanding is that the 8V.1 LPFP is pretty strong out of the box as it's a brushless pump. This (if true) is an upgrade (as I understand) over the previous gen LPFP. Being of brushless design means they are much more reliable, efficient and reduce heat.  These brushless pumps also use/have an electronic external controller.

 

I understand that the limits of the stock 8V.1 LPFP is around 730bhp (fuel flow associated).  Again, this will be a limit for me.

 

Assuming the pump is indeed brushless, it should mean that I can simply swap out the pump and reuse the stock controller.  If not I need to install a complete and matched pump and controller.

 

Regardless of what I do.... the stock LPFP will need to be upgraded.  That’s the easy bit!!!

 

Overall fuelling upgrade options

 

1) Secondary Injector Setup

Kits available - but I’m receiving information that these are not that great (the controller side) on the 8V.1.  Need to do some more research on this. Due to Syvecs not being (and confirmed to me to never be) available that’s a blow.  Looking at other options / substantiating what I’ve heard about current kits available.

 

2) Larger injectors on current rail

Can cause issues as it's not that straight forward.  Careful selection of modified injector is needed to ensure you have the right spray pattern and flow (so you don’t induce bore wash) and headroom will be limited under what a secondary injector kit can provide.   I can’t see this route being enough to hit the targets I want to hit. Also the more you push DIrect Injection with the 5 injectors (on smaller capacity injectors) the more heat you create.  Not a great thing. More digging needed.

 

3) Meth (or water/meth mix) Kit

This apparently really aids DI when you’re driving the injectors harder (due to increased heat).  In this instance used more for cooling than power. Flip side is to run higher or 100% meth injection.  I would consider this to support larger injectors, but it’s not ideal for me as I have a subjective and unfounded view on meth injection. lol The plus side is that running more meth will lift fuelling headroom a small amount.  Perhaps I just need to man up and give it a punt.

 

Nice that all of this is straightforward then!

 

Anyone got a DAZA engine and ancillaries I can buy and forge? lol

[BenTTU]

You need to run larger injectors and 50/50 meth. The meth will aid around 20% increase of fueling. 

 

Or just buy a fl manifold and go stand alone management? 

[Shaunee]

Injector options are being looked at now, but any form of stock injector will undoubtedly need to be modded because getting the right spray pattern is crucial.

 

Others have used different injectors before but some cars have smoked like a diesel.  Also need to strike the right balance in size.  Don't want bore wash.  I have a lead on something I can look at though.

 

Meth is a good idea on top of bigger injectors apparently as it aids cooling when driving DI hard, let alone any added knock resistance. 

 

Getting a 10 injector setup isn't the issue... I can buy a new ported runner, rail and injectors right now.  My concern is using a "basic" piggy back to control fuelling on an expensive engine build.  Options appear to be limited in this respect.

 

Unfortunately Syvecs is a no go on the 8V.1.

 

For now I'm going to look at bigger injectors, LPFP upgrade and see what that provides and how it runs (assuming I can source a good injector this should be the path of least resistance and full control will be available because it's still only DI).  Will also consider Meth injection and possibly look at replacing the runner with a flap delete version as I believe this aids spool and can increase bhp - only one way to find out.

[BenTTU]

Bit of education for you matey. 

 

Size of the injector does not cause bore wash, your tuner will control flow and dial them in.

 

Also I know what injectors you need but not willing to share. Lol

 

Secondly meth is not a cooling aid, the water does the cooling the meth is the octane booster. And if you use a 5 port water meth set up across the inlet and mapped in using a 5v map switching signal you are going to have enough fuel

Edited by BenTTU, 28 February 2019 - 07:26 AM.

[Shaunee]

Bit of education for you matey. 

 

Size of the injector does not cause bore wash, your tuner will control flow and dial them in.

 

Also I know what injectors you need but not willing to share. Lol

 

Secondly meth is not a cooling aid, the water does the cooling the meth is the octane booster. And if you use a 5 port water meth set up across the inlet and mapped in using a 5v map switching signal you are going to have enough fuel

 

If I fit virtual "hosepipes", elements of control could be impacted surely regardless of how they're mapped?  If this was not the case why have I seen RS3/TTRS' running larger injectors smoke like a diesel...... and these have been mapped by Audi specialists? Bad choice of injector?  Bad spray pattern?  That was the point I was making.  Clearly I'm not going to be fitting "hosepipes" that spray fuel badly. lol  At least this principal needed to be considered on previous cars I have "modded" albeit they were not DI.

 

I meant water/meth not just meth.... my bad choice of words - sorry.  

[BenTTU]

Some tuners run a tad on the rich side for safety reasons. Hence the block smoke, but it's not dramatic the odd puff when you first plant it. You won't see it while driving so it doesn't matter lol.

 

We regularly run 980cc ev14 Bosch injectors with a 4bar reg on the rs4 b5 platform, as the spray pattern is perfect and they dial in like oem injectors. No bore washing no dramatic black smoke.

550cc injectors on the 1.8t 20v no problems also 

 

 

Also I didn't say use hosepipe size injectors! I just stated using big injectors don't cause bore wash if dailed in correctly. If you go to the extreme and use a set rated for 2000hp and only need it for 800hp then ye your going to ask for trouble. But I would call this common sense. 

[Shaunee]

Ben,

I wasn’t insinuating you were referring to “hosepipe” injectors. I chose that special term (hence the quotes) to highlight what I meant originally when I suggested that injector size is a consideration..... with extreme injector size could mean an extreme outcome of bore wash.

In hindsight my original statement wasn’t worded the most effectively.

[BenTTU]

Depends on what you class as extreme when we run 980cc in a rs4 people say that's extreme but it isn't as it works. And really well.

If you get big injectors make sure they are of top brand,the brand makes a big difference over control and flow matched is also key

[Renga]

http://injectordynamics.com/ Have the injectors you need i think.

[Shaunee]

http://injectordynamics.com/ Have the injectors you need i think.

 

Yeah I've used ID's before..... iirc like 1000cc+. They worked really really well for that specific application. 

 

However for the RS3 I'm going to try an injector that is a stock injector used in supercar, which will be modded to suit the RS3 spray pattern requirements.  I've been informed it's a very good match for flow requirements.

 

Once it's been tested I will certainly feedback (good or bad) and divulge what injector it is and the modification that needs to be undertaken. 

Edited by Shaunee, 02 March 2019 - 06:42 AM.

[BenTTU]

Which supercar are we talking about ?

[Shaunee]

Which supercar are we talking about ?

 

Almost certainly the same injector that everyone talks about behind the shrouded secrecy that is the Audi wizardy world of tuning, and that no one dare speak about in public for fear of instantaneous human combustion.       

 

I'll speak about it and the mods needed once I've got some data from my car! 

[Shaunee]

Something else for me to try is this little lot which I just picked up today:



Secondary port injection and controller.

I wanted to swap out the stock runner and get rid of the flaps anyway. Also the stock runners apparently leak boost, so again this lot will solve that even if I decide not to go secondary.



I’ve been told by some, flap delete betters spool and increases airflow/power. Others tell me it does jack. We’ll swap in and out for some dyno testing and find out in the future!



Will look at the bigger injectors first for DI.

Secondary gives me another option.

[Shaunee]

Here’s some close ups of my “baby” GTX3576:

Edited by Shaunee, 09 March 2019 - 06:13 AM.

[Shaunee]

I was back up at Litchos yesterday talking about more mods and also took the car out again to test the DSG map changes that have been done since I went up 2 weeks ago.

Looking at getting it back on the dyno for a whole day to try some different things. Unfortunately Iain’s dyno is that busy he’s planning on taking the car up to Peron’s new dynocell so we can get this all sorted within the next couple of weeks. Should be able to pick the car up then to test for a few weeks before it goes back again for more work.

Getting there finally!

[Lawrence]

Your a mad man but love reading the thread and seeing what progress your making. Very interesting

[Shaunee]

Building up more bits and pieces for fitment and testing, but this time looking at the chassis dynamics.

Sort of a well trodden path, so I’ve just bought the following which is the H&R 25mm rear anti roll bar and MSS Track Suspension Pack to work with my magride suspension setup.

I know what these items are supposed to do.... only one way to find out what they actually do for me. My primary focus is to sharpen the dynamics up for road use but I certainly want to make the car more dynamic on track.... all without knocking my teeth out! I will certainly be doing some track events later this year.

More info and fitting details as and when I get around to this in the near future, however, what I will do is fit the ARB first and then test prior to fitting the MSS kit and testing. I will also have Litchfield’s to look at reviewing geometry. Again I will do this as a separate element. Ideally I wouldn’t mind doing some timed spring testing as part of each test to add some context.... not sure that’s going to be practical. We’ll see.

I’m looking forward to this part.

Huge thanks to www.tomwrigleyperformance.com

Stoppers will be next on the list.

[Caney]

Is your car going to be any quicker after months off the road than say someone bolting on a TTE700 in and out in a week or so?

[Shaunee]

Is your car going to be any quicker after months off the road than say someone bolting on a TTE700 in and out in a week or so?

 

In my heart Caney!!!       

 

The TTE700 is a good hybrid.  Virtually drive in and drive out.  It has it's limits though.

 

If you were not a nutter like me you'd probably go down this route.

 

In regards to finding out how quick the car is...... we will find out, but it will NEVER be quick enough versus the time it has taken. 

 

Going the route I've gone hopefully gives me more flexibility and I suspect I won't stop at a GTX3584RS either.

 

We'll see what this all means in the real world on the black stuff.

 

The good thing is there are quite a few UK big RS power builds hitting the streets this year.  So there will be the potential for comparisons. 

 

I'm looking to try and pull a number of these newer builds and existing builds together to smash it out on the black stuff....... that will be a good laugh and worthy of a feature or two. We could call it "Tuner Wars"